Traveller-digest    Wednesday, October 20 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1229



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: The Nth Traveller Flamewar
Re: GTL9 Standard Components
re: caesarians
Re: Supporting our game
Re: Zot!
Re: Attention Gear Heads! New Toy!
Re: Technology / Supporting our game (or is that "Whither Traveller"?)
Re: caesarians
Re: Vargr pic
Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!
Space Opera (was Re: Supporting our game)
Re: caesarians
Re: Supporting our game
Re: Supporting our game
Re: test - ignore
Re: Supporting our game
NZ LARPS
Re: Zot
Re: Traveller Auction Update
Re: A cheap way to pick up GURPS Traveller Sourcebook
Re: Traveller Auction Update 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:09:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: The Nth Traveller Flamewar

>Heck, I have a minor in pysics.  What your doing it mixing systems
>and playing on the unfamiliarity of American units.  The fact is
>that there are consitent sets of English units too and I have
>had engineers who have told me that, to them, the most important
>thing is to be able to redily refer to reference works, archived
>spec, etc. and say American is way to go for them. (I don't
>remember what subfield of engineering they were in).

I suspect that depends on where you're working, David. When I took my
degree in Electrical Engineering in 1985 (in Saskatchewan) almost all our
reference works were in metric (SI to be more precise). Our professors were
heartily glad to be using SI for thermodynamics, not Imperial, anyway.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:10:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: GTL9 Standard Components

>Robert Prior wrote:
>>GT Shipyard (available from BITS) has a great many GTL9 components already
>>built in. Some of these are described in 101 Starships (free from BITS).
>
>After finding the number of design errors made in the original GT, I don't
>take
>anyone else's designs at face value. Nothing personal.

No offense taken. I suppose that I should really include the design
worksheets for the extra modules as well.

>BTW I have been unable to exactly match your implied fusion thruster design
>stats using both short term and long term access, and by shifting TLs.

The fusion thrusters were someone else's. That should have been mentioned
in the credits.

>>More GTL9 (and lower) components will be released with GT Starships.
>>(Further details will have to come from Chris Thrash, as per usual
>>non-disclosure rules.) Gearheads who can't wait for the book are strongly
>>encouraged to subscribe to Pyramid and participate in the playtesting.
>
>Hmm, I have a feeling that would be very limiting on my ability to post
>designs
>of my own. I am quite keen to get as many GTL9 modules and designs into the
>public domain as possible before Starships comes out. I would have thought
>independent design is as useful as design verification.

True. But verification of proposed official designs is more useful. Given
your comments about GT errors, you should probably be participating in the
Gt Starships playtest.

Another point is that once your design is out in the public domain SJG
probably won't use it in their product, which means that the best designs
may be rendered unusable. As more readers probably read the official books
than the TML, your audience is larger if you get in print.

>What's the general view of play testers and refuseniks, particularly
>gearheads?
>Is it more fun in (hands tied) than out (hands free)?

In, definately. Not only does on get one's name in print, but you get all
the playtest stuff plus the PD stuff. There's also the added attraction of
helping create the official background.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:11:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
Subject: re: caesarians

>Whichever procedure gets your family back home in the best of health
>is the right one.
>
>Walt Smith

Or, depending on the hospital, whichever procedure gets the doctor to his
golf game on time.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:12:14 -0700
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Supporting our game

>> Well,  Kiri, the big problem is that you won't find a whole lot of
support for Traveller as space opera here on the list. If you corner most
folks 'round here, they'll deny it vehemently. Personally, I don't disagree
with you too much, but there are still folks who cling to Traveller as some
sort of hard sci-fi.
>
>Here's another who feels Traveller is designed for space opera.
>
>Given the characters and books that are supposed to have influenced its
design, I can't see how anyone can see it as anything but space opera. Just
look at the characters presented at the back of Supplement 1 : 1001
Characters, Kimball Kinnison, Earl Dumerest, Dominic Flandry, etc.
>
Exactly!!!

>In our games we have had things like the vampire Queen of the Universe (a
player) riding into battle on her personal war-droid ( another player ).
>
ROTFL.  We had no vampires, but that is pretty cool.

>In the same game, my character, who had once been a promising diplomat, but
had by then been nick-named  "Captain Ahab", spent much of his time trying
to figure out ways of destroying the entire crew of his ship. It had to be
_all_ of them, to prevent the prophecy from coming to pass,  and it had to
be so sudden that they couldn't stop it, and I had to prepare for it in such
a way that they didn't know I was preparing for it....
>
That sounds like fun!

>And what ever you do, avoid any planet entirely peopled by Australians.
While they are freindly sorts, will crack open a tinny for you on the
slightest pretext, and do great barbaques, after a few days your crew will
start talking like them, leading to uncontrollable outbursts of violence
from those who just can't stand the 'strine accent.
>
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!

>Sorry, a bit rambly because I'm home sick and dosed up on various drugs.
>
Been there... feel better!

Kiri
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan            93!              Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com

the current fair warnings:

"No matter what, expect the unexpected.  And whenever
possible, BE the unexpected."     -- Lynda Barry

"Honest to the point of recklessness, and self-centered
 in the extreme."            -- Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia

"God sent me to piss the world off!"  -- Eminem

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:26:52 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Zot!

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
<<snip>>

> I actually think its not laser weapons that will killed manned aircraft but
> masers. Much more effective to microwave the pilot.

Given the nickname for US Air Force defense suppression aircraft ("Wild
Weasels"), this give a whole new twist on "'Pop!' goes the weasel!"


- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:13:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Attention Gear Heads! New Toy!

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>> > In recent tests,...[the system was] operated...using nitrogen,
>> > helium and ammonia as propellant gases. The thruster can also
>> > potentially be operated with water as propellant. By means of
>> > spectroscopy, the helium velocity at the nozzle exit was found to
>> > be about 13,000 meters per second. That is the highest measured
>> > specific impulse for a continuously operating low power
>> > electrothermal thruster...
>> 
>> That's an Isp of about 127,400. I wonder what the max thrust is?
>
> Urk.  No it isn't.  It's an Isp of 1,326.

Ooops, you're right. So it's not all *that* impressive. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:13:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Technology / Supporting our game (or is that "Whither Traveller"?)

In mail you write:

> My suggestions would be to allow, and more importantly, set
> bounds on, things relating to human/computer technology,
> including
>
>     nanotech
>     cybernetics
>     human-computer data interface
>
> Nanotech need not be nanites-run-amok.  Set bounds on it and
> explain how it works in the Imperium and why.  Allow it in strictly
> controlled areas -- tiny, nanetic "clean boxes" -- becuase they're so
> dang good that they'll even process metals, wastes, organics, flesh
> and bone if set free.  A virus indeed.  Make them converters of
> raw materials only, not builders.  Banana peels into gold, or some
> such alchemy.

Even limited to this extent, it'll completely change commerce. Raw
materials can be extracted from country rock, or re-processed from
trash. BTW, fusion reactors have the potential to do the same.

So you wind up with an economy that bears no resemblance to anything
players are familar with. It'd resemble some cyberpunk stuff, but it
*wouldn't* give us the Imperium. 

As for cybernetics and computer stuff, you have the standard Traveller
problem of explaing why progress has been so *slow*. Hell, we can do
stuff now that I don't think *any* version of CT allowed. Or only
allowed at very high TLs.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:16:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: caesarians

In mail you write:

> As to "fashion" and c-section (from original post, not Leonard's)
> it was the fashion of _H._sapiens_ to have a high rate of death in 
> childbirth for both mother and child for most of our history. 
> Damn big heads--must be tricky fer them pesky Zhodani. ;-)

That's why one of the items high on my list of "how to intelligently
re-engineer the species" is placing the terminus of the birth canal
*above* the pelvic girdle. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:22:02 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Vargr pic

In mail you write:

> Hi guys,
> the last issue of the German SciFi series "Perry Rhodan"
> had a very interesting cover for Vargr fans:
> go see the scanned image at:

By "last issue" do you mean *final* issue, or just "most recent" issue?

I used to read the translated versions back in the 70s. I think they
got up into the 200s before sales got too low.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:44:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!

In mail you write:

> Not bad for a machine with a processor less powerful than an
> obsolete Pentium.

There's a *reason* the processor is so dumb. There was exactly *one*
attempt to use a "modern" CPU in a satellite. One of the OSCAR
satellites (satellites built by and for amateur radio operators). 

It was a disaster. In spite of their best efforts to shield it,
radiation was flipping bits in the CPU often enough to make it useless
much of the time. And waht "modern" chip was this? An 8086. 

I'm not sure what the latest "space rated" CPU is, but at that time it
was the RCA 1802 (same chip used in the *ancient* "ELF" computer
training kits from the 70s).

The requirements for space rated CPUs and parts are so different from
"mainstream" that until we have *major* orbital installations and
thousands of probes out there, they'll be either old stuff kept in
production for this "niche" market, or "custom" parts which cost like
crazy. 

Radiation and semiconductors don't mix well. And the higher the
integration (ie the smaller the junctions on the chip) the easier it is
for radiation to screw things up. 

> ObTrav: Just use the info Galileo has generated.
>
> Want a weird, dangerous planet for PCs to overcome? Show them the
> surface of Io.
>
> Want a challenging ship recovery mission? Use the details of
> Europa or Callisto and have the PCs recover it from the ice.
>
> How about having belters mine an asteroid and its moon?
>
> Lots of pictures and videos to create the right gaming
> "atmosphere"!

And for operations near a gas giant, figure that any GG that's
relatively close to an active star is going to have radiation belts
like Jupiter's *or worse*. 

That means special suits for EVA (something as bulky as BD). And
preferrably *no* EVA.

In really bad radiation belts, they may even have to worry about the
ship's hull not being sufficient shielding. But such should be rare.
Still won't help them when they encounter it. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:21:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Space Opera (was Re: Supporting our game)

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote

>Traveller is space opera.  Not the game, but old fashioned space opera,
>Empires in space, mysterious powers (the Zhodani) with mysterious powers,
>nobles, messages that take forever to arrive, the final Frontier with the
>emphasis on frontier, deadly and beautiful women (or boys/men), Imperial
>warrants (right out of the Three Musketeers!), all that fun stuff.
>And yes, pirates.

>I think that including the new technologies would be possible-- but only
>if you keep the feel of the universe in mind.
>Space opera is what I love to write and read and play, always loved best.

This is IMHO the heart of the matter.  Traveller isn't cyberpunk, hard-sf,
posthumanist, or any other flavor of SF, except moderately realistic (as
compared to say Lensman) space opera. 

Well, space opera has also changed over the past 20 years.  I think a wise
move would be into incorporate some of the changes. 

Two excellent recent series are the Hellflower trilogy by Eluki bes Shahar
(aka Rosemary Edgehill) & the Exordium Qunitology by Dave Trowbridge and
Sherwood Smith

Both are mid 90s space opera with interstellar nobles, settings vaguely
similar to Traveller, as well as cybernetic implants, limited genetic
engineering, AI computers, and similar stuff. 

Both series kept this reasonable by saying that full AI computers were
*highly* illegal (from problems experienced with them before).  Say all
but *really* limited nanotech to these limits, borrow heavily from both
series and you can get a Traveller Imperium that doesn't feel so retro,
but is still the Imperium. 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:30:47 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: caesarians

Dear Folks -

Tas said:
>...if it is painful after about 10 wees still...

and:
>...but it read lie that.   Tae it easy all.

I don't think your "k" is working on your keyboard (too much cola??). Or
did you really mean the first line??  ;-)

Congrats, Tas!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:36:23 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Supporting our game

Dear Folks -

Frank said:
>And what ever you do, avoid any planet entirely peopled by Australians.
>While they are freindly sorts, will crack open a tinny for you on the
>slightest pretext, and do great barbaques, after a few days your crew will
>start talking like them, leading to uncontrollable outbursts of violence
>from those who just can't stand the 'strine accent.

Just say "six", Frankie!

;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:41:03 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Supporting our game

Dear Folks -

Seth wrote:
>Yeah; my old group on Long Island in the 80's loved FGU's Space
>Opera over Traveller for this very reason.

Phillip McGregor <aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au>, co-author of _Space Opera_
and writer of the _Dark Star_ Trav fanzine, used to be on this list...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:50:57 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: test - ignore

Pete wrote:
> 
<<snip>
> >
> >       Never said I was original ... as proof of which, I've swiped your
> >sig:
> >
> >>"'Need' now means wanting someone else's money. 'Greed' means
> >wanting to keep
> >> your own. 'Compassion' is when a politician arranges the transfer."
> >>                                     -Joseph Sobran
> >
> 
> You dirty thief!! Oh...waitaminute. I don't even know who Joseph
> Sobran is, yet I quote him. Maybe I should a least run downstairs to
> the encyclopedia before I accuse anyone. ;-)

He's a conservative columnist.  Imagine someone just a bit to the right
of Rush Limbaugh, and without Rush's sense of humor....

Having said that, I can't say that I disagree with Sobran's definitions
above.

- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:57:10 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Supporting our game

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 1:00 AM
Subject: Re: Supporting our game


>First of all, keep in mind that I did say that I agreed with you to some
>extent.
>
>Well sort of, maybe a little. Space opera genre that encompasses quite a
>bit, and so is hard sci-fi. Story is secondary to genre, since most
examples
>of sci-fi are quite "dramatic" in that sense. It's all a question of
>character.


Whoops. There's a big possibility for misunderstanding here. Between the
above two paragraphs should be a sentence that reads: "A story type?" It was
part of a larger paragraph that I cut out for brevity. My apologies for any
misunderstanding.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:39:27 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: NZ LARPS

>At the same time, the rise in LARPs has exposed RPGs to more people. This
>very evening I will be attending a build-up/advertising event for a local
>game based on the "Aliens" universe which will be covered by the local
>media, and is held in a public building, literally just over the road from
>the New Zealand parliment buildings.

Bugger. You kiwi's have all the fun.

>And what ever you do, avoid any planet entirely peopled by Australians.
>While they are freindly sorts, will crack open a tinny for you on the
>slightest pretext, and do great barbaques, after a few days your crew will
>start talking like them, leading to uncontrollable outbursts of violence
>from those who just can't stand the 'strine accent.

You should have seen the sweat pour off may face, as I resisted the urge to make
a NZ LARP joke, then you relieve me by writing the above patagraph.

So : Hear Goes......

Alien V : THE LARP

After smashing into the pacific ocean at the end of Alien IV, Ripley's and the
Alien dna are scraped off the hull and cloaned. Unfortunatly, they are cloaned
in New Zealand, who never got past the sheep cloaning of the 20th Century, so
now we have Alien Hybrid sheep running around NZ, and its the players job to
capture it.

Featuring the king of Gearheads : Peter Jackson! (with Fusion Lawnmower Man
Portable)
As well as The Best New Zealand Footbaler The South Sea Islands have ever
produced : Jonah Lomu!

Gasp as the killer alien sheep consume the population! (exciting the male
population in the process!). Drool in fright as New Zealand is turned into a
dark desolate wasteland (um it's that allready), and watch Sam Neil and Caine
the wonder dog save the day!

Darryl


Darryl

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:17:28 -0700
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Zot

>That laser-toting 747 doesn't exactly look like a well-armored warplane.
>Once more than one side has airborne laser capabilities, will they
>effectively counter each other? Or will someone just have to make
>defensible (or disposable) flying laser platforms?

One path is that aircraft become better armoured (and slower) to
defend against lasers (and the lasers defend against missiles, so aircraft
cannon become the main weapon...) Ultimately, you end up with flying
tanks.

Sound familiar?

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:47:29 -0700
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Auction Update

At 10:08 PM 10/19/99 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 10/20/99 12:36:33 AM !!!First Boot!!!, 
>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au writes:
>
><< keith@sjgames.com is going for the Cardboard Heroes??!!!

You bet, and with any luck, I'll own them.  I would love to use them when I
demo G:Trav at conventions.  (hint hint, no one else bid on it :)

 
> Isn't that like sending coal to Newcastle?!!  ;-) >>

Do you know how out of print those things are?  The Warehouse doesn't
exactly have secret copies to sell to every employee who begs for it.
Perhaps they do, but I haven't convinced them to sell them to me yet. 


>Not necessarily. I spoke to Steve Jackson at the GAMA convention, and he
said 
>that they didn't include the Traveller cardboard heros with the new release 
>because he wasn't happy with the artwork.

Interesting.  I haven't heard that.  It doesn't suprise me though.


>This could be (and remember I'm 
>SPECULATING so don't take this as gospel truth or turn it into rumor...) a 
>case of someone needing the old pictures (cause the warehouse has no more of 
>them) to look at before they illustrate some new ones for a new release 
>(cross my fingers...:-) ).

Nope.  It's a case of me wanting them because I'm a sucker for anything
with the word Traveller stamped on it.  Besides, Cardboard Heroes are cool! ;)

SJ Games is still thinking about releasing more Cardboard Heroes.  If they
edecide to do it, then they will crack out the old artwork files, the spare
work copy that never leaves Austin, or hire artists to draw them.


On a side note,

I was at the Berkeley Distributor Open House a few weekends ago, and I got
to talk to quite a few retail people.  Amongst the very postive comments
that they had about GURPS Traveller, and how it is selling, they mentioned
the desire for Traveller Cardboard Heroes to be reprinted and spaceship
deck plans (for your Cardboard Heroes/miniatures) to be released.
Personally, I am all for more Traveller products and I think those are
excellent ideas.  Of course, I am just a web-monkey, so I don't have an
real impact on sales or marketing decisions.  Hopefully, I'll get a second
set of Trav Cardboard Heroes in the future. :)


On an additional side note, anyone want to sell me Book 8 for less than
$15? :)


_________________________________________________________

Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com

 IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:54:22 -0700
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com>
Subject: Re: A cheap way to pick up GURPS Traveller Sourcebook

At 10:08 PM 10/19/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@ansys.com>
>Subject: A cheap way to pick up GURPS Traveller Sourcebook
>
>They are offering $15 off your first order. S$H is $5.95 for the US.
>
>GURPS Trav Sourcebook is $20.66  ? I can't tell which edition
>	Final Cost $11.61

This would be the first edition book.


>GURPS Space is $17.96  ? looks like Second Edition
>	Final Cost $8.91

It's definately second edition.




_________________________________________________________

Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com

 IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:03:38 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Auction Update 

> ><< keith@sjgames.com is going for the Cardboard Heroes??!!!
> 
> You bet, and with any luck, I'll own them.  I would love to use them when I
> demo G:Trav at conventions.  (hint hint, no one else bid on it :)
>  
> > Isn't that like sending coal to Newcastle?!!  ;-) >>
> 
> Do you know how out of print those things are?  The Warehouse doesn't
> exactly have secret copies to sell to every employee who begs for it.
> Perhaps they do, but I haven't convinced them to sell them to me yet. 

They didn't teach you the secret Illuminati handshake yet????

> >Not necessarily. I spoke to Steve Jackson at the GAMA convention, and he
> said 
> >that they didn't include the Traveller cardboard heros with the new release 
> >because he wasn't happy with the artwork.
> 
> Interesting.  I haven't heard that.  It doesn't suprise me though.

Makes perfect sense to me.  Mind you, I met Steve at a Con about 20 years ago 
(one of the Earthcons, in Cleveland), and he struck me as a guy who placed 
quality as a 'good thing' in his products.

> SJ Games is still thinking about releasing more Cardboard Heroes.  If they
> edecide to do it, then they will crack out the old artwork files, the spare
> work copy that never leaves Austin, or hire artists to draw them.

That would be cool.  Course, a set of CH for use with Striker would be cool, 
too...

Come to think of it, so would some cardboard tanks & vehicles...

> On a side note,
> 
> I was at the Berkeley Distributor Open House a few weekends ago, and I got
> to talk to quite a few retail people.  Amongst the very postive comments
> that they had about GURPS Traveller, and how it is selling, they mentioned
> the desire for Traveller Cardboard Heroes to be reprinted and spaceship
> deck plans (for your Cardboard Heroes/miniatures) to be released.

This would work for me, too.  Especially if I could still use the plans for 
my CT/MT stuff as well.

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1229
***********************************

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